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This sort of training is in my opinion an essential part of martial arts for character building. You don't just teach students how to obliterate untrained folks, you also teach them how to deal with violent encounters in less lethal ways or in less commited ways. It's a form of restraint which also has practical benefits.
Here's my take on your question if self-defense specific techniques are worth it. I say yes, but ONLY if you have a really good foundation. This is basically the 80/20 rule. Once you have the 80% down, then start moving to the specialized 20%.
As a potentially poor example, when you're taught a jab in boxing, its hands up next to your face, extend your arm, and retract it back next to your face. However, a flicker jab is a specialized version of a jab. Your hand has to be lower, but because you have that foundation, you also know distance, movement, and other blocks. Flicker jabs work really well in my opinion, but only if you have those foundations solid. Same goes with what you were describing.
Makes sense… I mean… You're essentially showing a group fighting technique. Keeping yourself free to disengage. But using the "sport" techniques, you can still disengage… Just not AS well. I remember some of those overcomplicated self defense classes against knives 😂
I like training self-defense, BJJ, boxing and ECQC. I agree, against an ""untrained" opponent simple is typically better. The problem with that comes when you have an opponent who isn't completely untrained. One might find out before it's too late. So, I train planning that they are trained in something. The less complicated, the more repeatable, the better. But the more tools in the toolbox the better change you give yourself for survival. Thank you for addressing the need for the eyes sir.
The finish position of the take down reminds me heavily of the end position that I learnt from training Japanese Ju-jitsu. A majority of the throws end with the defender in a standing position above the attacks, usually with a grip on an arm ready to strike, joint lock or run away. I trained excessively yin self defence techniques and every single one of them is practical. But my training wasn't. I was not prepared for defending a series of strikes, or getting rushed and tackled, or realistically what happens is someone does grab you from behind in a rear choke. They dont stand there with a limp grip; they bury you into the ground. All the techniques I learned I believe are perfectly fine throws and takedowns but the method I was taught removed a lot of practicality from them and effective application. If I had learnt wrestling or kept up with Judo, my skills for effective fighting or takedowns would be miles better. Instead I learnt a lot of scenario work that ventured into the realms of fantasy. I really like that Mike is showing some of the principles that I learnt when I was younger applied in a realistic manner. My dad trained in martial arts and he said he liked that with something like what Mike is showing you can decide how much force you can apply, be it just getting them to the ground, restrain and joint lock or pummel the hell out of them.
I remember an Eddie Bravo seminar where he was teaching his rubber guard and techniques, and he said
"this stuff all gets better as you get good at the traditional stuff, because you can flow back and forth between the two. You can do my fancy shit a guy defends and you hit him with a surprise kimura, but you've gotta have the basics as well".
I feel like this applies here too, if you are good at the basics you can get fancy. Get real good at an arm drag and you can do arm drag variations.
I would train it, personally. It looks cool, is fun to train, and would be a useful concept to learn. I think if you're a cop or constantly engaging in violence, yeah you should specialize in these things, but if not just do it every now and again so you have the motions down.
Excellent! Reminds me that pretty much all the takedowns in traditional karate kata are also intended to put someone on the ground while staying on your feet. Unfortunately most karate schools don’t actually teach them and the few that do rarely pressure test them and very rarely do any sparring that involves takedowns
“That won’t work in the streets” is the #1 indicator that the person is yet to go to their first free trial class at any type of martial arts gym. If a technique works against world class professionals it’s sure as hell gonna work against some untrained bum that DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT TECHNIQUE IS.
Actual self defence practice is like eating your greens, very boring and you avoid it at all costs because its boring… Martial arts and sparring is so much more fun. Must eat more greens 🙂
Yo mike, you covered a lot of important fundamentals in this one, despite showing a modified technique, and I think it's a great demonstration and concept you're getting across. Takes a little experience to make it work for you, but the concept applies to several techniques, this being a great one to demo on.
If you look at places like KOTS, which is like the closest to street fights with skill i found it generally also doesnt include much fancy throws and stuff. So although i train a more grappling based martial art, I definitely also see value in the keeping it standing, as the ground doesnt care who threw who.
I could tell that wasn’t fake. The physics behind that take down are sound. You quickly changing directions and then pulling back and downwards, not allowing the opponents feet time to recover themselves. It makes complete senses. I think all the grapplers and wrestlers in your audience understand right away it’s legit. 🤙
In Swedish legislation less is better. Cause if we like punch and stomp a dude who attacked us, we'd no doubt in hell get a longer sentence than the attacker. Like even during panic and life threatening danger we should know when enough is enough. So like if we can stop someone with less violence we are better off in the eyes of the courts.
Which is easier said than done. For the record I have not been in such a situation but once I witnessed a store thief run down a flight of stairs and I froze. 🙈 I train kickboxing now but doubt I'd be better off anyway.
As someone who has never taken any self-defense classes and is just thinking about what I'd want to be taught, it'd be how to control someone hands and/or head… and how I can finish the fight once I do that. Couple that with some good balance and you'd give most people a hard time.
I think if you took away everything from a Muai Thai guy except his really good plum and right knee he's still gonna destroy 99% of people who get in his face. Same with BJJ if all you had was the ability to control someone's wrists and a standing guillotine, I would say against an untrained person he's likely fucked.
I love when you have to make repeated pre-emptive "hold on" gestures for the cheeto-fingered viewers! 😂
I love this, looks like you're way more in tune with what his hands are up to from the back, and if GTFO is the agenda the lack of attachment is an asset, and the ability to attach is still on the table.
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Go to this link to win a $500 Revgear gift card: https://revgear.com/hard2hurtemailsignup/
I was on the high school wrestling team. That is a good takedown.
very few people are throwing a left hook in a fight lol, great vid though and very informative
Do you have a video about takedown defense in self defense too?
This sort of training is in my opinion an essential part of martial arts for character building. You don't just teach students how to obliterate untrained folks, you also teach them how to deal with violent encounters in less lethal ways or in less commited ways. It's a form of restraint which also has practical benefits.
Here's my take on your question if self-defense specific techniques are worth it. I say yes, but ONLY if you have a really good foundation. This is basically the 80/20 rule. Once you have the 80% down, then start moving to the specialized 20%.
As a potentially poor example, when you're taught a jab in boxing, its hands up next to your face, extend your arm, and retract it back next to your face. However, a flicker jab is a specialized version of a jab. Your hand has to be lower, but because you have that foundation, you also know distance, movement, and other blocks. Flicker jabs work really well in my opinion, but only if you have those foundations solid. Same goes with what you were describing.
Makes sense… I mean… You're essentially showing a group fighting technique. Keeping yourself free to disengage.
But using the "sport" techniques, you can still disengage… Just not AS well.
I remember some of those overcomplicated self defense classes against knives 😂
I like training self-defense, BJJ, boxing and ECQC. I agree, against an ""untrained" opponent simple is typically better. The problem with that comes when you have an opponent who isn't completely untrained. One might find out before it's too late. So, I train planning that they are trained in something. The less complicated, the more repeatable, the better. But the more tools in the toolbox the better change you give yourself for survival. Thank you for addressing the need for the eyes sir.
The finish position of the take down reminds me heavily of the end position that I learnt from training Japanese Ju-jitsu. A majority of the throws end with the defender in a standing position above the attacks, usually with a grip on an arm ready to strike, joint lock or run away. I trained excessively yin self defence techniques and every single one of them is practical. But my training wasn't. I was not prepared for defending a series of strikes, or getting rushed and tackled, or realistically what happens is someone does grab you from behind in a rear choke. They dont stand there with a limp grip; they bury you into the ground. All the techniques I learned I believe are perfectly fine throws and takedowns but the method I was taught removed a lot of practicality from them and effective application. If I had learnt wrestling or kept up with Judo, my skills for effective fighting or takedowns would be miles better. Instead I learnt a lot of scenario work that ventured into the realms of fantasy. I really like that Mike is showing some of the principles that I learnt when I was younger applied in a realistic manner. My dad trained in martial arts and he said he liked that with something like what Mike is showing you can decide how much force you can apply, be it just getting them to the ground, restrain and joint lock or pummel the hell out of them.
I remember an Eddie Bravo seminar where he was teaching his rubber guard and techniques, and he said
"this stuff all gets better as you get good at the traditional stuff, because you can flow back and forth between the two. You can do my fancy shit a guy defends and you hit him with a surprise kimura, but you've gotta have the basics as well".
I feel like this applies here too, if you are good at the basics you can get fancy. Get real good at an arm drag and you can do arm drag variations.
I would train it, personally. It looks cool, is fun to train, and would be a useful concept to learn. I think if you're a cop or constantly engaging in violence, yeah you should specialize in these things, but if not just do it every now and again so you have the motions down.
"i sound like them"
spoken like a broken man with the soulles stare of a war veteran
11:35 Mike, you’re doing the Krav Maga sound effects again!
Excellent! Reminds me that pretty much all the takedowns in traditional karate kata are also intended to put someone on the ground while staying on your feet. Unfortunately most karate schools don’t actually teach them and the few that do rarely pressure test them and very rarely do any sparring that involves takedowns
“That won’t work in the streets” is the #1 indicator that the person is yet to go to their first free trial class at any type of martial arts gym. If a technique works against world class professionals it’s sure as hell gonna work against some untrained bum that DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT TECHNIQUE IS.
Why not got for a Underhook with the right arm?
Actual self defence practice is like eating your greens, very boring and you avoid it at all costs because its boring… Martial arts and sparring is so much more fun. Must eat more greens 🙂
Yo mike, you covered a lot of important fundamentals in this one, despite showing a modified technique, and I think it's a great demonstration and concept you're getting across. Takes a little experience to make it work for you, but the concept applies to several techniques, this being a great one to demo on.
Mike's practicing aikido lol. Full circle lol
If you look at places like KOTS, which is like the closest to street fights with skill i found it generally also doesnt include much fancy throws and stuff. So although i train a more grappling based martial art, I definitely also see value in the keeping it standing, as the ground doesnt care who threw who.
nothing on the ground is good for the street unless We think we are bulletproof and stab proof
I could tell that wasn’t fake. The physics behind that take down are sound. You quickly changing directions and then pulling back and downwards, not allowing the opponents feet time to recover themselves. It makes complete senses. I think all the grapplers and wrestlers in your audience understand right away it’s legit. 🤙
Thank you Icy Mike
Solid intel; thanks, Mike!
The fingers 0_0
In Swedish legislation less is better. Cause if we like punch and stomp a dude who attacked us, we'd no doubt in hell get a longer sentence than the attacker. Like even during panic and life threatening danger we should know when enough is enough. So like if we can stop someone with less violence we are better off in the eyes of the courts.
Which is easier said than done. For the record I have not been in such a situation but once I witnessed a store thief run down a flight of stairs and I froze. 🙈 I train kickboxing now but doubt I'd be better off anyway.
As someone who has never taken any self-defense classes and is just thinking about what I'd want to be taught, it'd be how to control someone hands and/or head… and how I can finish the fight once I do that. Couple that with some good balance and you'd give most people a hard time.
I think if you took away everything from a Muai Thai guy except his really good plum and right knee he's still gonna destroy 99% of people who get in his face. Same with BJJ if all you had was the ability to control someone's wrists and a standing guillotine, I would say against an untrained person he's likely fucked.
Best video you've made so far in my opinion
I love when you have to make repeated pre-emptive "hold on" gestures for the cheeto-fingered viewers! 😂
I love this, looks like you're way more in tune with what his hands are up to from the back, and if GTFO is the agenda the lack of attachment is an asset, and the ability to attach is still on the table.
Oh, and I want the revgear stuff! 😂