Are Pistol Sights Actually Useful For Self-Defense?
A few weeks ago, we looked at whether red dot sights are a good idea for a concealed carry pistol. Lots of our followers expressed skepticism — not just for red dot sights, but for any kind of sights being useful in a real world defensive encounter. Is there a specific distance where we should plan to shoot “instinctively” rather than rely on the sights? Is sighted fire even possible considering the close range and quick reaction times required in most scenarios? Should we be practicing a combination of sighted fire and point shooting? We can’t give you any definitive answers, but we can offer some strong opinions!
What Is A Flash Sight Picture? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyYvTZu5nos
Craig Douglas on retention shooting: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=craig+douglas+retention
Cecil Burch on close contact shooting: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cecil+burch
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I'm going to say something that might upset people, but true nonetheless – a lot of this depends on your training and level of competence. As a former service member myself I have seen a pretty wide gamut of what people are capable of, and also what they take from instruction. It's true for a lot of people their sites might not be useful because their instinctual urges will take over and they will have very little control over their actions. For other people, a gunfight is an entirely different experience and lining up your sights, putting a red dot in target, controlling your trigger press and everything else is a much more studied and intentional process.
I can certainly tell you as a matter of first-hand experience that anyone who is functioning at a high level in any kind of military combat unit, or law enforcement tactical units, sure as heck is able to use their pistol sights in a lethal situation. Your average beat cop, your average Marine or soldier, maybe not so much.
Good video! Personally I find a big difference in the time to first shot when drawing from concealment. I need to get better, but my fastest time to first shot at 5 yards is 1.07 when I point shoot. Itās about 1.47 when I draw and then use my sites. So in my experience, point shooting can be very useful when you have to draw and hit your target ASAP. However, that time difference may decrease as I keep training on drawing and using my sites.
Sights are a complete waste of time if you're just pulling a weapon and firing at somebody in a crazy situation. All you have to do is watch those videos of gangbangers wildly shooting at each other and missing everything except the little 8-year-old black girl who happens to be across the street. The best video is the old guy in the church where some CIA drugged lunatic walked in with a rifle dressed in black and thought he was going to shoot up the church for fun or to prove a point or whatever. Old guy pulls his pistol pop pop and the dude drops like a sack of potatoes. That's reality he may have aimed but only because the guy in the black didn't notice him and he had time. More likely you're going to be confronted with some lunatic or some idiot criminal and you're just going to have to point and shoot.
I came directly to the comments section to say that this is f**** stupid before even watching the video or you get the complete f**** idiot….. you think anybody ever pointed their 45 pipe down in the end at a Nazi German???
I didnāt start incorporating point and shoot into my training until after I shot someone. I encourage everyone to do at least half of their training in point and shoot. Most people just roll their eyes at meā¦
Such a good topic and your points are right on as usual. I would take the practical route and say practice both, become proficient with both, use the tactics that the situation demands. Strictly adhering to one or the other is how you end up dead or in prison for killing the wrong person
I used to shoot USPSA and IDPA as a master class shooter and practiced with over 1000 rounds a week. Even extremely close range when I was nearly out running the cyclic rate of my 2011, I was using the sights to some degree, just less picky the closer the target is. Shooting from retention was the dumbest thing Iāve ever done in competition (required by stage description), when I couldāve simply taken a step back and hosed the target with the gun between my eyes and target.
Then put your ammo where your mouth is and legally sell to legal Californians and stop selectively supporting the 2A. Brownell's, Bud's, Midsouth, ……all legally sell to California. Be a patriot and not a coward.
Sights might not be viable in certain situations. I shoot using the Han Solo stance: limp wrist, bent elbow, support arm out, lower my center of gravity. The force is my sights, faith guides my hand.
My carry weapons are either or both a Beretta 87 primary, and / or a CZ75 Compact. I have thought of a micro reflex even the Mepro Bullseye, but I am going with no rear sight and only a front high visibility sight with tritium for night. Though most tritium sights are way to bright for my taste. You would be surprised how well you shoot with just a front sight.
When I was an adolescent at school we had archery class. No sights were used there and I seldom missed. We used a subbasement with dirt floor under the gym… so we had the targets at 10 – 15 meters… a challenge for those not adept. But here is the deal we shot in two person teams. I always drew one of the football guys or other sports type… I was a year younger than anyone else, a grade ahead, and a studious nerdy kid. For each set turn there would be a winner and loser. The winner was to squat the loser on the butt with a paddle… a two foot long board about a 1/2" thick with a handle sawn into one end which was rounded edges and wrapped with athletic tape… the winner could squat as hard as he might choice. As I alway won my partners really had no fear, but one day I shot poorly and lost. I expected a genteel tap… but got a two handed hard as he could cracking strike… then a strut to show his friends. My partner thought that was great fun, until I won the last three rounds and gave back as good as I got. Then he realized his mistake and asked to switch partners… NO was the coaches answer! There is dumb and their plain old dead dumb… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoVmc12vEs
Two drug dealers got upset that I parked in their territory and tried to murder me for it. The first one pulled his gun about 20 yards away (I was in the second parking spot in a parking lot, they were on the sidewalk directly across the street.)
He didn't use his sights. It was pretty clear when he missed my entire truck 3 times in a row. Dude couldn't hit the broad side of a Dodge without aiming…
The only thing I remembered seeing afterwards was his gun, my safety, and then my front sight. I couldn't have told you for certain anything else, their gender, race, size, clothing… Nothing, just his Ruger p95 and my gun's sights. That's all I saw.
I used my sights from the start. He didn't. One of us gets to share their side of the story… Take whatever you will from that.
Grab a Seecamp. No sights. Fits in pocket easily. Always with you. People call it a āget off meā gun. I can put 7 shots of 32acp out of a Seecamp in a good zone on a silhouette target at 5 yards. Iām happy. Ludwig Seecamp said you donāt need iron sights. He lived through a WWII pistol battle. He would know.
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For half a second I thought that was Greta Thunberg in the thumbnail.
Is the ammo shortage so bad that a major online ammunition retailer is now practicing with an airsoft gun? Lol š
That ending was perfect.
I'm going to say something that might upset people, but true nonetheless – a lot of this depends on your training and level of competence. As a former service member myself I have seen a pretty wide gamut of what people are capable of, and also what they take from instruction. It's true for a lot of people their sites might not be useful because their instinctual urges will take over and they will have very little control over their actions. For other people, a gunfight is an entirely different experience and lining up your sights, putting a red dot in target, controlling your trigger press and everything else is a much more studied and intentional process.
I can certainly tell you as a matter of first-hand experience that anyone who is functioning at a high level in any kind of military combat unit, or law enforcement tactical units, sure as heck is able to use their pistol sights in a lethal situation. Your average beat cop, your average Marine or soldier, maybe not so much.
You are the most logical, precise and eloquent guntuber on my feed. Excellent stuff as always
Good video! Personally I find a big difference in the time to first shot when drawing from concealment. I need to get better, but my fastest time to first shot at 5 yards is 1.07 when I point shoot. Itās about 1.47 when I draw and then use my sites. So in my experience, point shooting can be very useful when you have to draw and hit your target ASAP. However, that time difference may decrease as I keep training on drawing and using my sites.
Sights are a complete waste of time if you're just pulling a weapon and firing at somebody in a crazy situation. All you have to do is watch those videos of gangbangers wildly shooting at each other and missing everything except the little 8-year-old black girl who happens to be across the street. The best video is the old guy in the church where some CIA drugged lunatic walked in with a rifle dressed in black and thought he was going to shoot up the church for fun or to prove a point or whatever. Old guy pulls his pistol pop pop and the dude drops like a sack of potatoes. That's reality he may have aimed but only because the guy in the black didn't notice him and he had time. More likely you're going to be confronted with some lunatic or some idiot criminal and you're just going to have to point and shoot.
I came directly to the comments section to say that this is f**** stupid before even watching the video or you get the complete f**** idiot….. you think anybody ever pointed their 45 pipe down in the end at a Nazi German???
Happy 420k!!!!!
I didnāt start incorporating point and shoot into my training until after I shot someone. I encourage everyone to do at least half of their training in point and shoot. Most people just roll their eyes at meā¦
Such a good topic and your points are right on as usual. I would take the practical route and say practice both, become proficient with both, use the tactics that the situation demands. Strictly adhering to one or the other is how you end up dead or in prison for killing the wrong person
I used to shoot USPSA and IDPA as a master class shooter and practiced with over 1000 rounds a week. Even extremely close range when I was nearly out running the cyclic rate of my 2011, I was using the sights to some degree, just less picky the closer the target is.
Shooting from retention was the dumbest thing Iāve ever done in competition (required by stage description), when I couldāve simply taken a step back and hosed the target with the gun between my eyes and target.
A lot of good information in a short video. I think your analysis was spot on.
Then put your ammo where your mouth is and legally sell to legal Californians and stop selectively supporting the 2A. Brownell's, Bud's, Midsouth, ……all legally sell to California. Be a patriot and not a coward.
Sights might not be viable in certain situations. I shoot using the Han Solo stance: limp wrist, bent elbow, support arm out, lower my center of gravity. The force is my sights, faith guides my hand.
Your 9 shot close drill video, is one of my favorites1
Very useful!!! Thank you!
Would love to hear your take on shooting from the hip. Sean Connery made it look easy.
My carry weapons are either or both a Beretta 87 primary, and / or a CZ75 Compact. I have thought of a micro reflex even the Mepro Bullseye, but I am going with no rear sight and only a front high visibility sight with tritium for night. Though most tritium sights are way to bright for my taste. You would be surprised how well you shoot with just a front sight.
When I was an adolescent at school we had archery class. No sights were used there and I seldom missed. We used a subbasement with dirt floor under the gym… so we had the targets at 10 – 15 meters… a challenge for those not adept. But here is the deal we shot in two person teams. I always drew one of the football guys or other sports type… I was a year younger than anyone else, a grade ahead, and a studious nerdy kid. For each set turn there would be a winner and loser. The winner was to squat the loser on the butt with a paddle… a two foot long board about a 1/2" thick with a handle sawn into one end which was rounded edges and wrapped with athletic tape… the winner could squat as hard as he might choice. As I alway won my partners really had no fear, but one day I shot poorly and lost. I expected a genteel tap… but got a two handed hard as he could cracking strike… then a strut to show his friends. My partner thought that was great fun, until I won the last three rounds and gave back as good as I got. Then he realized his mistake and asked to switch partners… NO was the coaches answer! There is dumb and their plain old dead dumb…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoVmc12vEs
where's the one-handed shooting? at close range, that likely to be how you'd be shooting
My DGU happened in 2015.
Two drug dealers got upset that I parked in their territory and tried to murder me for it. The first one pulled his gun about 20 yards away (I was in the second parking spot in a parking lot, they were on the sidewalk directly across the street.)
He didn't use his sights. It was pretty clear when he missed my entire truck 3 times in a row. Dude couldn't hit the broad side of a Dodge without aiming…
The only thing I remembered seeing afterwards was his gun, my safety, and then my front sight. I couldn't have told you for certain anything else, their gender, race, size, clothing… Nothing, just his Ruger p95 and my gun's sights. That's all I saw.
I used my sights from the start. He didn't. One of us gets to share their side of the story… Take whatever you will from that.
Grab a Seecamp. No sights. Fits in pocket easily. Always with you. People call it a āget off meā gun. I can put 7 shots of 32acp out of a Seecamp in a good zone on a silhouette target at 5 yards. Iām happy. Ludwig Seecamp said you donāt need iron sights. He lived through a WWII pistol battle. He would know.