War loving Christian hypocrisy, health is the result of healthy practices, loving friends vs. loving romantic partners, arguments from analogy, your history …
Society can not be run like a family, because we care about our kids
(optimally) in a way we do not about strangers. Its asking everyone to be
totally naive and valuing strangers as we do family. That can never happen,
and is the reason why socialism always end up with corruption. Because its
based on people not acting like humans do, valuing subjectively, instead of
valuing everyone equally. So it fails.
what is this insanity about climate change. Really, you are smart enough to
know better, which must mean you are deliberately being false to pander to
your rightwing fanclub. I know you have to make a living, but that kind of
falseness is pretty disappontng.
I see people misunderstanding the zeitgeist movement’s approach on a
resourse based economy. Search on youtube ”Economic Calculation in a
Natural Law / RBE, Peter Joseph, The Zeitgeist Movement, Berlin” its long
but watch it to stop coming up with absurd fallacies about what it is we
advocate.
Stefan, I’m thinking that when a child is spanked he’s corrupted in a way
that he won’t attempt to have a rational conversation with their parents
about spanking.
In my experience I was spanked when I misbehaved, if I wanted to stop the
spanking what I needed to do is stop misbehaving (as opposed to google
“spanking” and make the case to my parents against spanking). And I mean
“stop misbehaving” in a theoretical sense, because I was never thought how
to behave, I was only punished when I misbehaved.
What I’m trying to say is that spanking becomes perpetual, because when you
spank a child he is more likely to misbehave again (due to the caused
trauma to the brain), the opposite extreme is when you don’t spank a child
he is more likely to develop negotiation and rational thinking skills and
never require spanking.
If abusing parents (that spanked) adopted a teen that have never been
spanked before, maybe then you’ll have a scenario where the teen would try
to make the case against spanking to his parents.
It must be considered that few if any christians actually go to war because
they believe they are killing without warrant. Most, if not all Christians
go into battle because they truly believe that they are fighting to defend
their freedom back home. So I believe you are wrong in assuming that
Christians going to war is against the commandments. They only go to war
when they truly believe that it is to defend themselves and their friends
and family back home. If anything, the problem is not Christians “not”
following the commandments. The problem is Christians, as well as
non-christians, being coerced and tricked into fighting. There is
unfortunately a difference between the reason they THINK they are fighting,
and the actual purposes of the wars. Problem is more or less the education
of the public through the media. There is deception somewhere that needs to
be rooted out.
I think it’s funny how Stefan can talk about how people shouldn’t talk
about things they haven’t studied then goes right on and makes all kinds of
fallacious statements about the zeitgeist movement. It’s a good thing his
audience are a bunch of panderers otherwise they might actually think for
themselves and go research what the movement is all about. We don’t want
to take away anyone’s rights as it was put forth in that one call we want
to free humanity from all the bullshit and stress that the current system
enforces on us. Just because this is the only system you have ever known
don’t assume it’s the best thing ever. A butterfly would never leave the
cocoon if it thought like that.
What’s awesome is modern plasma cosmology defies the existence of black
holes, as construct falsely created to force gravitational cosmological
equations to work.
This idiotic strawman about families/corporations not relying on market
prices and profits… yes, corporations do rely on internal pricing quite a
bit, but their ultimate profitability is still compared against the
benchmark of how profitable other corporations, traded on the stock market,
are. Privately held firms are notoriously harder to value for this very
reason. And the more a corporation (or indeed, any firm or organisation on
the market) relies on purely internal methods of pricing, the more
susceptible it is to calculational chaos.
The family is just one form of organisation where there is a degree of
one-sided altruism, but it still derives resources from the market
mechanism. It produces and consumes within the context of a market, with
parents handling resource allocation in this mini-community as they best
see fit. There is no real organisation of production in this context, just
the allocation of resources produced outside the family, so it is a bad
example.
And I sure as hell don’t want to be in the permanent state of a child,
waiting upon the parents to shower it with goods, at their discretion.
Stefan is correct, because if this assumes a parent-child (or
manager-employee) type relationship across the spectrum of resources, it
turns into an appeal to the parent to divvy out resources. Prices are
ratios of exchange, showing what is, in actual fact, valued and prioritised
by the purchaser. Surveys, appeals etc. are just floating expressions of
desire.
Also, whoever determines how resources are deployed, be this a computer
(i.e. whoever programs it), a “democratic” council, a commune, a syndicate
of workers, whatever, will demand effort is put in to get anything out, and
this will be based on things like performance reviews etc. (because
remember, this isn’t market socialism; prices and money are gone), all far
more subjective and arbitrary than prices, which express value gained and
surrendered in an exchange. There will be no wet dream of not being
‘forced’ to work etc., not unless scarcity is abolished and complete
automation occurs, which again, is a paradigms shift and does not eliminate
opportunity costs (i.e. ‘time’) entirely.
Stefan had to repeatedly tell this guy to make an argument and he still was
just making assertion after assertion, similar to the debate with Peter
Joseph, common theme appearing.
I understand why I like you … you’re not a pinhead intellectual, but
rather an engineer deep down!!
Your first segment is about “Thou shalt not kill” as being reason not to go
to war. To clarify the actual Hebrew translates more to the word “murder”
than “kill” therefore changing the dynamic a tad. In the movie
Sergeant York, it does a good job explaining the Biblical justification for
war.
Now with that said most of the wars this nation have been in have been a
joke. Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of overkill, going after
one man. A micro-example today was going after the kid accused of the
Boston Marathon Bombings. Shutting down Boston, instilling martial law and
shooting up a city block was a typical over reaction to a relatively minor
threat.
If you want to go into the Zionist rabbit hole … WWI and WWII were both
planned to bring Israel back to fulfill end time prophecies. The
Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, WWI (to help our allies), WWII (defense
and helping allies) about sums up the justifiable wars … sure some
“conflicts” may work to defend those who cannot, but most move from defense
to murder when you dig into the underlying motivations. So I somewhat
agree, but needed to clarify the Biblical translations.
The problem with the assumption is that God “endorses” evil or wrong.
Unfortunately that’s more man justifying their evil by using snippets of
scripture. I think you take the Bible as a whole and realize much is not
God’s commandments, but rather a history. Things like David’s Psalms show
us an example of how MAN prays to God, and is not full of Biblical truths.
I think once we stop making God in our image and think of him more on a
conscious energy level things become more clear.
21:50 In fact, excommunication in the Roman Catholic church cannot be done
en masse. It is strictly governed by Canon Law and this requires a duly
appointed tribunal of inquiry. It’s very similar to the legal system. The
Pope has no direct input, just as the US President has no direct input
into the US judicial system..
I advocate a money-less economy based on sharing and the idea that those
who contribute get to share the fruits, and those who don’t, don’t. This
is in conflict with the Venus model, which is that you do not have to work
in order to share the fruits.
So the Venus model is a turn-off for anybody who has worked hard to see
someone who does not deserve the fruits of their labor receive it
nonetheless.
What is funny about this is that people who are for the Venus project
typically are against capitalism because within capitalism some people live
without working. Yet on Venus, the same happens.
Venus is too far on the sharing scale, ‘sharing even if it kills you.’ But
our current system is too far on the ‘sharing will kill you’ side. We have
a class of parasites just like Venus does, only ours are called
billionaires.
Haven’t listened to the whole thing, but wow, this last caller is so much
on the same wavelength as Stefan… it’s astonishing and wonderful to
listen to.
Tru Christian will never kill, unless it is self defense, they don’t need
pope or anyone to tell them, they should know that, that is how and why it
is written, so everyone should know.
First. We are all descended from a common ancestor, so in a very real sense
we are all family. At the very least we obviously share the same
environment.
Second. When someone in your family asks you for help, you do not say sure,
just pay me this much, you do it for free. You do not charge your family,
you do not try and profit off you family, because you realize in the long
run you are just hurting yourself.
That is what is meant by saying society should be treated as a family, this
is not a difficult concept to grasp. Of course in his typical extremely
annoying fashion Stephan does everything he can to avoid acknowledging the
point, instead creates a straw man attack. It is a disgrace to call what
he does philosophy.
Good one … this is probably one of my fave call in shows you’ve done yet
– the 1st and 3rd callers were really interesting – but .. the whole thing
was superb. Excellent work. thanks
BTW few months back when stefan was trying to analyze the relation between
zeitgesiters and their upbrininging i thought he was just wasting his time,
but after todays video i just realized that stefan was right all along!
Zeitgeisters believe that families dont use the price system in their day
to day life, when kids ask mommy for something mommy just gives it for
free, but what they dont realize that what mommy gave to the kid for free
cost her money! mommy and daddy has to work to provide free stuff for thier
kids, everything that families do for each other is based on the price
system.Mom buys food with the money she earns at her job,dad gave you an
iphone with the moneey that he earned at his job, yes they didnt ask you to
pay but they did pay someone else and it cost them money!
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
you win.
This is a quote i heard Stefan make once, but isn’t it true that you
Stefan, have first ignored Zeitgeisters, then started laughing at them and
that you are now actually fighting them? Whether I am or am not a
Zeitgeister being beside the point, this trend of Stefan bashing
Zeitgeisters is visible if you look at it close enough and is starting to
move more and more into the “fight it” stance.
@ 49:53 what he is missing is that a child parent relationship is like a
dictatorship.. you have all the power so children have to beg you… a
parent child relationship is impossible if you are on the same level.. I
don’t need to tell someone what I need.. I can go get it.. same as they
can.. and a society structured like my family would be terrible.. I dreamed
of the day I could move out on my own as a child.. and Have not looked
back ever since I moved out… LOL.. TZMers want a daddy to hand them
goodies… while machines do all the work. LOL need I say more???
On the subject of “Black Holes”.
The theory of Black Holes is only a theory.
I have heard far better theory than E=MC squared.
There is no proof of a Black Hole existing. There is proof of the theory of
electricity. Even though the mainstream education system teaches that Black
Holes are real, that doesn’t make the theory correct.
Mainstream education also teaches that electricity flows through metal,
that is incorrect, electricity reflects and “flows” in a field around metal.
A superior theory, in my opinion, is that what is observed as a Black Hole
is an electric density charge point in space.
The electric universe theory is more consistent with observed reality.
People used to believe the Earth was the center of the solar system.
Many people today believe that the theory of gravity and E=MC squared is
wrong.
I’m one of those people.
I have some knowledge concerning electricity, and an FCC GROL license with
RADAR endorsement.
If you want to learn about electricity, watch the lectures of Eric Dollard.
That is when I hate people spearheading the RBE and screws it up by
confusing arguments. The RBE is the way to go but when explained
inadequately it creates a kind of separation. The main thing the caller
failed is that the RBE is a FREE and equal society for the betterment of
everybody.
Both Stefan and the last caller get on her dad’s case, but I don’t see why.
A man who gives up all of his dreams to make a woman’s dreams come true
can be a little resentful. Yeah, he did it voluntarily, but that’s just
what people expect men to do so it’s not exactly an even playing field and
oftentimes men do it without realizing they’re doing it. Have a little
sympathy for the guy, I say.
Yes, religion is retarded and some of it seeps in to foreign policy. But it
is considerably less than some conspiracy theorists like to “think”
especially in the secular West. Rapture seeking Christian sects are very
fringe indeed.
Mainly because Jesus did not kill anyone and did not even commanded to
kill, quite the opposite. Still, there are freaks who are able to construct
their own absolutely contradicting models of behavior. Now, compare it to
Muhammad, Islam and Koran.
It should not be a contest of who is less dangerous but if it was would be
like badminton vs rugby.
Nevertheless….
How would you feel if these Christian sects had under command many
thousands fanatically loyal fighters and were close to completing nuclear
bomb?
I’d be shitting my pants.
And now, imagine no more and look at Iran.
No wonder “zionists” are shitting their pants. They are the only secular
democracy in the region. May have many faults but still miles ahead the
rest.
At 1:15:00 “You cannot have any more responsibility in your own life than
you assign to your parents.” That is true, but it is also true that until
facts are known, they are still not known. So it can be perfectly
responsible to go according to the current social knowledge.
Before there were any widely supported studies about spanking being
negative, and if it was widely held that spanking was positive for the
child, it could be perfectly responsible to spank the child.
My parents didn’t spank prior to there being clear evidence against it, but
that is because they found it repulsive and wrong… going against the
social “norm” which was that kids were getting “paddled in school every day
by the principal for their own good: to teach them obedience this was
deemed positive and necessary” when I was very young.
They were not just being responsible in their choice, they went *beyond*the call of duty and challenged the “known” to improve their own lives, and
my life also. When my father went to the public school and told the
principal that if he hit me that he would hit the principal, that went
beyond a responsible act. This was in response to the principal threatening
me with paddling. He was my hero for doing this!
Is everyone “entitled” to parents like that? Of course not. Those who do
their best to be responsible with the facts they come by, to the best of
their ability, are already passing the responsibility test in its basic
form.
The problem with holding people to impractically high levels of
responsibility is that this will create the opposite problem of
perfectionism, and the inability to be happy with less than a perfect life.
The truth is always found between the extremes of irresponsibility and
perfectionism, and this is the only place where one can find real
happiness.
I want to drop a bomb here. Stephan Molyneux and FDR are ultimately
irrational! It seems to me that Stephan poses as a beacon of rationality
and philosophy but those two attributes are constantly overridden by his
own egomania. The caller with the heavy accent makes an excellent point, I
think. Stephan won’t give his argument the time of day because it would
undermine his perceived intellectual superiority.
DISCLAIMER: I have no proof of this, this is the thoughts that come to me
induced by his arguing.
In’lakesh
d.
stefan, I’m a big fan of your work and i love your take on society and the
modern state. (what a predicament were in etc.) Im sure this video would
have great content, but i really dont have time to be listening to a 3 hour
lecture, please make shorter video’s in future so i can continue to ponder
your content and increase my knowledge.
What Stefan fails to recognize, though has said himself, is the fact that
the market system caters first and foremost to preferences. Thus, it only
produces ‘good’, like efficiency, only to the extent that ‘good’ is
preferred, and only in the particular sense in which efficiency is valued.
On top of that, as has been understood for a long time, the premise is that
the consumer has enough information, and that the meaningful segment of
consumers have the purchasing power to ‘encourage’ that which they value.
One problem about market economy today is that a radically narrow version
of it is in use. For example, the notion that monetary price alone would
convey all relevant information about a product or service in insanely
blind. Any sane person considers multiple other factors when assessing
‘value’. There are those who do not – it is a researched fact that a
considerable portion of big business CEOs are psychopaths. Where a
psychopath is someone whose parts of brain conducting logical calculations
and assessing moral issues fail to interconnect during decision making, as
is normally the case. Psychopaths are therefore well suited to function as
CEOs in this incredibly narrow sense of value determinations in a narrow
version of market economy. They produce more monetary profit at the cost of
the other aspects of value which most of us consider very relevant, and
which absolutely should be considered at large in every transaction, for
the market system to work even nearly as advertised.
For example, where Stef says that the inventor of a more efficient resource
allocation X thingy would get venture capital, the premise is that this X
thingy brings profit to the investors, which refers to only a specific
narrow kind of efficiency&value, assuming it is the only valuable sense of
efficiency&value. As in only such efficiency&value that will produce profit
for an investor in a monetary market system is the only valuable
efficiency&value. Its a system bias, or something like that.
What the guy at 34:56 is probably trying to explain, is that we
‘digitalise’ the market mechanism. In the sense of authority, the thing
that would control some aspects of society in an RBE, is in principle very
similar to bitcoin versus fiat – make the controller an algorithm, a
mechanism, instead of a corruptible human being.
Both ANCAPS and RBE advocates fail at crucial points in these arguments.
The failure of ANCAPS is not recognizing the narrowness of their concept of
‘freedom’ and ‘voluntarism’, dismissing the criticisms to it. The RBE side
on the other hand fails to appreciate this point of ‘freedom’ and
‘voluntarism’, which is easily recognizable as a crucial consideration for
ANCAP fans. When you do not make clear whether an RBE would be ‘voluntary’,
you will have an ANCAP nut think that it will not, by default.
1:42:30 Spanking results in shaving IQ points of, higher chance of becoming
a criminal, etc. facts science reason and evidence.
nonono, spanking does not ‘result’ in anything according to free will, the
will is free from spanking.
now on the case of Zeitgeist economy, the problem is money is not a real
measure of social development. What is? Early technocratic movement propose
to use natural laws and energy as ways of running a society. All systems
live within the laws of nature, thermodynamic laws specifically. Money in
zeitgeist society is Energy. But it’s not used to buy and sell things but
to distribute resources. For example broccoli cost 3 dollars to produce,
energy wise it costs 15-20 cents to produce. Caviar costs 200/100g to
produce energy wise it will be much less. Energy does not include taxes,
overheads, salaries and so on. Energy has universal value it’s not just
local. Energy has all attributes of gold. So to produce anything you need
energy not money. And the goal of technocratic society is to consume less
energy that it produce. And since quality of energy from oil and solar
energy is the same society can decide to produce more clean energy and not
worry about profit.
I’m going to go out on a limb and make an hypothesis here… I assume many
Stefan Molyneux fans & listeners, (and perhaps Libertarians) come from
broken families. On average, I find the people who call & comment, to be
rather above average intellectually. Often, these are people who try to
rationalize, and understand, a lot of what goes on around them. If as a
child, you missed a parental figure model… or even worst, love. And as a
smart person, made it on your own, with the help of no one, I think you are
more likely to be “reached” by what Mr. Molyneux is preaching. You can try
all your life to comprehend and rationalize these weird socialist liberals,
who believe in “the common good”, you can try to intellectually analyze
what compassion, empathy, what love is. I’m sure Stefan would agree, if you
missed these things as a child, you will most probably struggle to
understand them. And by “trying to understand them”, I personally believe
you are missing the point.
1) The moral code so highly prized by religions has been around since long
before they existed. The Sumerians had a strict moral code which can be
traced through Babylon and was clarified by Hamurabi In Hamurabi’s Code.
Just another thing that religions took credit for that they didn’t create.
Most of the stories in the bible came from Sumerian history.
2) why would an athiest blame god for anything when they don’t believe in a
god? lol
3) Resource Based economy. First thing we need to do is realize that we
live on a spaceship, with finite resources. On a small scale, each city
would have a central computer that would have sensors placed in the
surrounding farmland. These sensors would detect when watering is
necessary and when watering should be stopped. In this way the water is
used efficiently. The falacy is that the system would control US. The
idea is to give mankind freedom from menial tasks and let us invent, create
, etc. If we aren’t just living to pay bills but actually being allowed to
live is the main push of the idea. We have the technology to do so. It
seems so many have such a hard time getting the idea across.
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Society can not be run like a family, because we care about our kids
(optimally) in a way we do not about strangers. Its asking everyone to be
totally naive and valuing strangers as we do family. That can never happen,
and is the reason why socialism always end up with corruption. Because its
based on people not acting like humans do, valuing subjectively, instead of
valuing everyone equally. So it fails.
Venus Project true (irrational) believer detected at 35:00
what is this insanity about climate change. Really, you are smart enough to
know better, which must mean you are deliberately being false to pander to
your rightwing fanclub. I know you have to make a living, but that kind of
falseness is pretty disappontng.
“I have observed you for months.” :-)
I see people misunderstanding the zeitgeist movement’s approach on a
resourse based economy. Search on youtube ”Economic Calculation in a
Natural Law / RBE, Peter Joseph, The Zeitgeist Movement, Berlin” its long
but watch it to stop coming up with absurd fallacies about what it is we
advocate.
Stefan, I’m thinking that when a child is spanked he’s corrupted in a way
that he won’t attempt to have a rational conversation with their parents
about spanking.
In my experience I was spanked when I misbehaved, if I wanted to stop the
spanking what I needed to do is stop misbehaving (as opposed to google
“spanking” and make the case to my parents against spanking). And I mean
“stop misbehaving” in a theoretical sense, because I was never thought how
to behave, I was only punished when I misbehaved.
What I’m trying to say is that spanking becomes perpetual, because when you
spank a child he is more likely to misbehave again (due to the caused
trauma to the brain), the opposite extreme is when you don’t spank a child
he is more likely to develop negotiation and rational thinking skills and
never require spanking.
If abusing parents (that spanked) adopted a teen that have never been
spanked before, maybe then you’ll have a scenario where the teen would try
to make the case against spanking to his parents.
It must be considered that few if any christians actually go to war because
they believe they are killing without warrant. Most, if not all Christians
go into battle because they truly believe that they are fighting to defend
their freedom back home. So I believe you are wrong in assuming that
Christians going to war is against the commandments. They only go to war
when they truly believe that it is to defend themselves and their friends
and family back home. If anything, the problem is not Christians “not”
following the commandments. The problem is Christians, as well as
non-christians, being coerced and tricked into fighting. There is
unfortunately a difference between the reason they THINK they are fighting,
and the actual purposes of the wars. Problem is more or less the education
of the public through the media. There is deception somewhere that needs to
be rooted out.
I think it’s funny how Stefan can talk about how people shouldn’t talk
about things they haven’t studied then goes right on and makes all kinds of
fallacious statements about the zeitgeist movement. It’s a good thing his
audience are a bunch of panderers otherwise they might actually think for
themselves and go research what the movement is all about. We don’t want
to take away anyone’s rights as it was put forth in that one call we want
to free humanity from all the bullshit and stress that the current system
enforces on us. Just because this is the only system you have ever known
don’t assume it’s the best thing ever. A butterfly would never leave the
cocoon if it thought like that.
What’s awesome is modern plasma cosmology defies the existence of black
holes, as construct falsely created to force gravitational cosmological
equations to work.
This idiotic strawman about families/corporations not relying on market
prices and profits… yes, corporations do rely on internal pricing quite a
bit, but their ultimate profitability is still compared against the
benchmark of how profitable other corporations, traded on the stock market,
are. Privately held firms are notoriously harder to value for this very
reason. And the more a corporation (or indeed, any firm or organisation on
the market) relies on purely internal methods of pricing, the more
susceptible it is to calculational chaos.
The family is just one form of organisation where there is a degree of
one-sided altruism, but it still derives resources from the market
mechanism. It produces and consumes within the context of a market, with
parents handling resource allocation in this mini-community as they best
see fit. There is no real organisation of production in this context, just
the allocation of resources produced outside the family, so it is a bad
example.
And I sure as hell don’t want to be in the permanent state of a child,
waiting upon the parents to shower it with goods, at their discretion.
Stefan is correct, because if this assumes a parent-child (or
manager-employee) type relationship across the spectrum of resources, it
turns into an appeal to the parent to divvy out resources. Prices are
ratios of exchange, showing what is, in actual fact, valued and prioritised
by the purchaser. Surveys, appeals etc. are just floating expressions of
desire.
Also, whoever determines how resources are deployed, be this a computer
(i.e. whoever programs it), a “democratic” council, a commune, a syndicate
of workers, whatever, will demand effort is put in to get anything out, and
this will be based on things like performance reviews etc. (because
remember, this isn’t market socialism; prices and money are gone), all far
more subjective and arbitrary than prices, which express value gained and
surrendered in an exchange. There will be no wet dream of not being
‘forced’ to work etc., not unless scarcity is abolished and complete
automation occurs, which again, is a paradigms shift and does not eliminate
opportunity costs (i.e. ‘time’) entirely.
This is before incentive problems even kick in!
Stefan had to repeatedly tell this guy to make an argument and he still was
just making assertion after assertion, similar to the debate with Peter
Joseph, common theme appearing.
I understand why I like you … you’re not a pinhead intellectual, but
rather an engineer deep down!!
Your first segment is about “Thou shalt not kill” as being reason not to go
to war. To clarify the actual Hebrew translates more to the word “murder”
than “kill” therefore changing the dynamic a tad. In the movie
Sergeant York, it does a good job explaining the Biblical justification for
war.
Now with that said most of the wars this nation have been in have been a
joke. Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of overkill, going after
one man. A micro-example today was going after the kid accused of the
Boston Marathon Bombings. Shutting down Boston, instilling martial law and
shooting up a city block was a typical over reaction to a relatively minor
threat.
If you want to go into the Zionist rabbit hole … WWI and WWII were both
planned to bring Israel back to fulfill end time prophecies. The
Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, WWI (to help our allies), WWII (defense
and helping allies) about sums up the justifiable wars … sure some
“conflicts” may work to defend those who cannot, but most move from defense
to murder when you dig into the underlying motivations. So I somewhat
agree, but needed to clarify the Biblical translations.
The problem with the assumption is that God “endorses” evil or wrong.
Unfortunately that’s more man justifying their evil by using snippets of
scripture. I think you take the Bible as a whole and realize much is not
God’s commandments, but rather a history. Things like David’s Psalms show
us an example of how MAN prays to God, and is not full of Biblical truths.
I think once we stop making God in our image and think of him more on a
conscious energy level things become more clear.
21:50 In fact, excommunication in the Roman Catholic church cannot be done
en masse. It is strictly governed by Canon Law and this requires a duly
appointed tribunal of inquiry. It’s very similar to the legal system. The
Pope has no direct input, just as the US President has no direct input
into the US judicial system..
I advocate a money-less economy based on sharing and the idea that those
who contribute get to share the fruits, and those who don’t, don’t. This
is in conflict with the Venus model, which is that you do not have to work
in order to share the fruits.
So the Venus model is a turn-off for anybody who has worked hard to see
someone who does not deserve the fruits of their labor receive it
nonetheless.
What is funny about this is that people who are for the Venus project
typically are against capitalism because within capitalism some people live
without working. Yet on Venus, the same happens.
Venus is too far on the sharing scale, ‘sharing even if it kills you.’ But
our current system is too far on the ‘sharing will kill you’ side. We have
a class of parasites just like Venus does, only ours are called
billionaires.
Haven’t listened to the whole thing, but wow, this last caller is so much
on the same wavelength as Stefan… it’s astonishing and wonderful to
listen to.
The last caller chick sounded like an uninformed self-absorbed hippy moron.
Screen for more interesting callers dude lol
Tru Christian will never kill, unless it is self defense, they don’t need
pope or anyone to tell them, they should know that, that is how and why it
is written, so everyone should know.
First. We are all descended from a common ancestor, so in a very real sense
we are all family. At the very least we obviously share the same
environment.
Second. When someone in your family asks you for help, you do not say sure,
just pay me this much, you do it for free. You do not charge your family,
you do not try and profit off you family, because you realize in the long
run you are just hurting yourself.
That is what is meant by saying society should be treated as a family, this
is not a difficult concept to grasp. Of course in his typical extremely
annoying fashion Stephan does everything he can to avoid acknowledging the
point, instead creates a straw man attack. It is a disgrace to call what
he does philosophy.
Good one … this is probably one of my fave call in shows you’ve done yet
– the 1st and 3rd callers were really interesting – but .. the whole thing
was superb. Excellent work. thanks
BTW few months back when stefan was trying to analyze the relation between
zeitgesiters and their upbrininging i thought he was just wasting his time,
but after todays video i just realized that stefan was right all along!
Zeitgeisters believe that families dont use the price system in their day
to day life, when kids ask mommy for something mommy just gives it for
free, but what they dont realize that what mommy gave to the kid for free
cost her money! mommy and daddy has to work to provide free stuff for thier
kids, everything that families do for each other is based on the price
system.Mom buys food with the money she earns at her job,dad gave you an
iphone with the moneey that he earned at his job, yes they didnt ask you to
pay but they did pay someone else and it cost them money!
I’ll be doing a portrait of Stefan and many other champions of the
principles of liberty for publication in a photo book. Order yours here!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1823151262/portraits-of-liberty
50:39 The caller literally just rephrased:
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
you win.
This is a quote i heard Stefan make once, but isn’t it true that you
Stefan, have first ignored Zeitgeisters, then started laughing at them and
that you are now actually fighting them? Whether I am or am not a
Zeitgeister being beside the point, this trend of Stefan bashing
Zeitgeisters is visible if you look at it close enough and is starting to
move more and more into the “fight it” stance.
Foundation for Environmental Education ?? or?
@ 49:53 what he is missing is that a child parent relationship is like a
dictatorship.. you have all the power so children have to beg you… a
parent child relationship is impossible if you are on the same level.. I
don’t need to tell someone what I need.. I can go get it.. same as they
can.. and a society structured like my family would be terrible.. I dreamed
of the day I could move out on my own as a child.. and Have not looked
back ever since I moved out… LOL.. TZMers want a daddy to hand them
goodies… while machines do all the work. LOL need I say more???
Why the Flying Fuck is Stefan equating Music complexity and appreciation to
“”efficiency and overhead” ?? wtf?? such a moron ~
On the subject of “Black Holes”.
The theory of Black Holes is only a theory.
I have heard far better theory than E=MC squared.
There is no proof of a Black Hole existing. There is proof of the theory of
electricity. Even though the mainstream education system teaches that Black
Holes are real, that doesn’t make the theory correct.
Mainstream education also teaches that electricity flows through metal,
that is incorrect, electricity reflects and “flows” in a field around metal.
A superior theory, in my opinion, is that what is observed as a Black Hole
is an electric density charge point in space.
The electric universe theory is more consistent with observed reality.
People used to believe the Earth was the center of the solar system.
Many people today believe that the theory of gravity and E=MC squared is
wrong.
I’m one of those people.
I have some knowledge concerning electricity, and an FCC GROL license with
RADAR endorsement.
If you want to learn about electricity, watch the lectures of Eric Dollard.
That is when I hate people spearheading the RBE and screws it up by
confusing arguments. The RBE is the way to go but when explained
inadequately it creates a kind of separation. The main thing the caller
failed is that the RBE is a FREE and equal society for the betterment of
everybody.
There is nothing in the definition of “explanation” that means it must
describe only deterministic processes.
Both Stefan and the last caller get on her dad’s case, but I don’t see why.
A man who gives up all of his dreams to make a woman’s dreams come true
can be a little resentful. Yeah, he did it voluntarily, but that’s just
what people expect men to do so it’s not exactly an even playing field and
oftentimes men do it without realizing they’re doing it. Have a little
sympathy for the guy, I say.
Yes, religion is retarded and some of it seeps in to foreign policy. But it
is considerably less than some conspiracy theorists like to “think”
especially in the secular West. Rapture seeking Christian sects are very
fringe indeed.
Mainly because Jesus did not kill anyone and did not even commanded to
kill, quite the opposite. Still, there are freaks who are able to construct
their own absolutely contradicting models of behavior. Now, compare it to
Muhammad, Islam and Koran.
It should not be a contest of who is less dangerous but if it was would be
like badminton vs rugby.
Nevertheless….
How would you feel if these Christian sects had under command many
thousands fanatically loyal fighters and were close to completing nuclear
bomb?
I’d be shitting my pants.
And now, imagine no more and look at Iran.
No wonder “zionists” are shitting their pants. They are the only secular
democracy in the region. May have many faults but still miles ahead the
rest.
At 1:15:00 “You cannot have any more responsibility in your own life than
you assign to your parents.” That is true, but it is also true that until
facts are known, they are still not known. So it can be perfectly
responsible to go according to the current social knowledge.
Before there were any widely supported studies about spanking being
negative, and if it was widely held that spanking was positive for the
child, it could be perfectly responsible to spank the child.
My parents didn’t spank prior to there being clear evidence against it, but
that is because they found it repulsive and wrong… going against the
social “norm” which was that kids were getting “paddled in school every day
by the principal for their own good: to teach them obedience this was
deemed positive and necessary” when I was very young.
They were not just being responsible in their choice, they went *beyond*the call of duty and challenged the “known” to improve their own lives, and
my life also. When my father went to the public school and told the
principal that if he hit me that he would hit the principal, that went
beyond a responsible act. This was in response to the principal threatening
me with paddling. He was my hero for doing this!
Is everyone “entitled” to parents like that? Of course not. Those who do
their best to be responsible with the facts they come by, to the best of
their ability, are already passing the responsibility test in its basic
form.
The problem with holding people to impractically high levels of
responsibility is that this will create the opposite problem of
perfectionism, and the inability to be happy with less than a perfect life.
The truth is always found between the extremes of irresponsibility and
perfectionism, and this is the only place where one can find real
happiness.
I want to drop a bomb here. Stephan Molyneux and FDR are ultimately
irrational! It seems to me that Stephan poses as a beacon of rationality
and philosophy but those two attributes are constantly overridden by his
own egomania. The caller with the heavy accent makes an excellent point, I
think. Stephan won’t give his argument the time of day because it would
undermine his perceived intellectual superiority.
DISCLAIMER: I have no proof of this, this is the thoughts that come to me
induced by his arguing.
In’lakesh
d.
Has Stefan ever addressed spoiling children e.g. buying everything they
demand?
I honestly cannot understand how you guys can sit around and listen to this
venus project crap.
stefan, I’m a big fan of your work and i love your take on society and the
modern state. (what a predicament were in etc.) Im sure this video would
have great content, but i really dont have time to be listening to a 3 hour
lecture, please make shorter video’s in future so i can continue to ponder
your content and increase my knowledge.
What Stefan fails to recognize, though has said himself, is the fact that
the market system caters first and foremost to preferences. Thus, it only
produces ‘good’, like efficiency, only to the extent that ‘good’ is
preferred, and only in the particular sense in which efficiency is valued.
On top of that, as has been understood for a long time, the premise is that
the consumer has enough information, and that the meaningful segment of
consumers have the purchasing power to ‘encourage’ that which they value.
One problem about market economy today is that a radically narrow version
of it is in use. For example, the notion that monetary price alone would
convey all relevant information about a product or service in insanely
blind. Any sane person considers multiple other factors when assessing
‘value’. There are those who do not – it is a researched fact that a
considerable portion of big business CEOs are psychopaths. Where a
psychopath is someone whose parts of brain conducting logical calculations
and assessing moral issues fail to interconnect during decision making, as
is normally the case. Psychopaths are therefore well suited to function as
CEOs in this incredibly narrow sense of value determinations in a narrow
version of market economy. They produce more monetary profit at the cost of
the other aspects of value which most of us consider very relevant, and
which absolutely should be considered at large in every transaction, for
the market system to work even nearly as advertised.
For example, where Stef says that the inventor of a more efficient resource
allocation X thingy would get venture capital, the premise is that this X
thingy brings profit to the investors, which refers to only a specific
narrow kind of efficiency&value, assuming it is the only valuable sense of
efficiency&value. As in only such efficiency&value that will produce profit
for an investor in a monetary market system is the only valuable
efficiency&value. Its a system bias, or something like that.
What the guy at 34:56 is probably trying to explain, is that we
‘digitalise’ the market mechanism. In the sense of authority, the thing
that would control some aspects of society in an RBE, is in principle very
similar to bitcoin versus fiat – make the controller an algorithm, a
mechanism, instead of a corruptible human being.
Both ANCAPS and RBE advocates fail at crucial points in these arguments.
The failure of ANCAPS is not recognizing the narrowness of their concept of
‘freedom’ and ‘voluntarism’, dismissing the criticisms to it. The RBE side
on the other hand fails to appreciate this point of ‘freedom’ and
‘voluntarism’, which is easily recognizable as a crucial consideration for
ANCAP fans. When you do not make clear whether an RBE would be ‘voluntary’,
you will have an ANCAP nut think that it will not, by default.
I agree with what you say at 118 mins – children need slack cut for being
abused.
1:42:30 Spanking results in shaving IQ points of, higher chance of becoming
a criminal, etc. facts science reason and evidence.
nonono, spanking does not ‘result’ in anything according to free will, the
will is free from spanking.
Stefan missed the point the Asian guy was getting at.
now on the case of Zeitgeist economy, the problem is money is not a real
measure of social development. What is? Early technocratic movement propose
to use natural laws and energy as ways of running a society. All systems
live within the laws of nature, thermodynamic laws specifically. Money in
zeitgeist society is Energy. But it’s not used to buy and sell things but
to distribute resources. For example broccoli cost 3 dollars to produce,
energy wise it costs 15-20 cents to produce. Caviar costs 200/100g to
produce energy wise it will be much less. Energy does not include taxes,
overheads, salaries and so on. Energy has universal value it’s not just
local. Energy has all attributes of gold. So to produce anything you need
energy not money. And the goal of technocratic society is to consume less
energy that it produce. And since quality of energy from oil and solar
energy is the same society can decide to produce more clean energy and not
worry about profit.
I’m going to go out on a limb and make an hypothesis here… I assume many
Stefan Molyneux fans & listeners, (and perhaps Libertarians) come from
broken families. On average, I find the people who call & comment, to be
rather above average intellectually. Often, these are people who try to
rationalize, and understand, a lot of what goes on around them. If as a
child, you missed a parental figure model… or even worst, love. And as a
smart person, made it on your own, with the help of no one, I think you are
more likely to be “reached” by what Mr. Molyneux is preaching. You can try
all your life to comprehend and rationalize these weird socialist liberals,
who believe in “the common good”, you can try to intellectually analyze
what compassion, empathy, what love is. I’m sure Stefan would agree, if you
missed these things as a child, you will most probably struggle to
understand them. And by “trying to understand them”, I personally believe
you are missing the point.
1) The moral code so highly prized by religions has been around since long
before they existed. The Sumerians had a strict moral code which can be
traced through Babylon and was clarified by Hamurabi In Hamurabi’s Code.
Just another thing that religions took credit for that they didn’t create.
Most of the stories in the bible came from Sumerian history.
2) why would an athiest blame god for anything when they don’t believe in a
god? lol
3) Resource Based economy. First thing we need to do is realize that we
live on a spaceship, with finite resources. On a small scale, each city
would have a central computer that would have sensors placed in the
surrounding farmland. These sensors would detect when watering is
necessary and when watering should be stopped. In this way the water is
used efficiently. The falacy is that the system would control US. The
idea is to give mankind freedom from menial tasks and let us invent, create
, etc. If we aren’t just living to pay bills but actually being allowed to
live is the main push of the idea. We have the technology to do so. It
seems so many have such a hard time getting the idea across.