Red Bluff Officer Involved Shooting Teaches Us About Unnecessary Escalation
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I’m not sure what commenters are missing on this one, but the standard of the use of deadly force are quite clear. Swinging a stick or pipe at someone’s head is a forcible felony, and a forcible felony against the person may legally be stopped by using deadly force. This is a clear bright line. A stick or pipe swung at the head by a grown man is highly likely to cause great bodily harm and the officer in that moment has the same right as any other citizen to stop the deadly threat to his person.
The compression of the scenario by the second officer needs correction, and I said so. The officers tried less lethal tools, everything at their disposal, and this guy HAD to be taken into custody. While some people might think that an officer COULD tackle him if he wanted to, there is no duty on the part of officers to put themselves at risk of death or great bodily harm in the course of their duty.
This perp had literally every opportunity to avoid this outcome, and they gave him many many chances. His actions ultimately led to his outcomes, and the DA agrees with me in that. I think it might possibly have been avoided if the second officer had allowed the first officer to continue to work on de-escalating the perp, but the shooting was 100% justified to a standard of a reasonable person.
Preservation of Life is also a priority for law enforcement officers. It mustn't assume paramount importance in every instance and officers have every right to defend themselves but a reasonable attempt at preserving life is also expected and this was a disgraceful one, if any attempt at all. Your technical reasoning could possibly be reinforcing such impulsive conduct by law enforcement personnel and I reckon you should rethink your perspective.
So if I felt threatened by someone walking down the street with a stick (not even attacking anyone) I’d be justified in shooting and killing him if he get to close?
The cops could have absolutely stopped the guy without shooting they show up in force for a reason if that group of men is not capable enough to all tackle down one man with a stick with out having to shoot him they need better training I’ve seen people on the street do a better job then this
I despise liberals and everything they stand for. But when I see things like this, I get a little more comfortable with defunding police. That second cop's superiority complex is nauseating to say the least.
You know, big nets worked wonders on subduing people back before firearms became the norm; they're regularly used in the movies to capture the tough ones. A coordinated "seining" could go a long way towards ending protracted standoffs, eh!?
Not sure why everybody is disagreeing with the self defense tbh. The officers surely did a poor job talking to the guy, but this guy obviously intended to inflict harm on these officers, the officers tried less than lethal multiple times, told him "drop the stick or you'll be shot", and in the end he decides to swing at the officers. id have shot him too if he was swinging something at my head. also, its not like the cop mag dumped him,, the suspect was shot ONCE. where's the common sense anymore? is YouTube censoring the agreeing comments or something?
Maybe it's "legally" justified, but nah people won't accept this. You can kill people with anything if you willing to, so why don't they shoot any aggressor if that's the case.
This is a great example of "Give them an inch and they take a mile" For all the people saying this was wrong you have to understand that he's got a potentially deadly weapon. The more leniency on the laws, the more and more they become broken.
Thought experiment: swap the officers for crazy guys and the crazy guy with an officer. It would look like they chase him down, scare him into fighting, and then shoot him.
It looked like these officers forced this guy into a corner and shot him. He should have complied with the orders, but he was not the one who escalated this. Looks very bad. And possibly justified under the law, but I would never be able to sleep again if I were one of those officers.
I have mixed reviews about this. At least three officers and the suspect only had a stick. Surely someone could have disarmed him without having to use lethal force. But I get it…compliance is a must but was deadly force really necessary?
It has always been a dangerous job to be a policeman. Now it is dangerous to be a citizen. The cops are pussies and the public is in danger. What if he was mentally challenged? Shoot to kill? It is ridiculous. If the cops are not trained any better than this, why are we spending so much money on law enforcement?.
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I’m not sure what commenters are missing on this one, but the standard of the use of deadly force are quite clear. Swinging a stick or pipe at someone’s head is a forcible felony, and a forcible felony against the person may legally be stopped by using deadly force. This is a clear bright line. A stick or pipe swung at the head by a grown man is highly likely to cause great bodily harm and the officer in that moment has the same right as any other citizen to stop the deadly threat to his person.
The compression of the scenario by the second officer needs correction, and I said so. The officers tried less lethal tools, everything at their disposal, and this guy HAD to be taken into custody. While some people might think that an officer COULD tackle him if he wanted to, there is no duty on the part of officers to put themselves at risk of death or great bodily harm in the course of their duty.
This perp had literally every opportunity to avoid this outcome, and they gave him many many chances. His actions ultimately led to his outcomes, and the DA agrees with me in that. I think it might possibly have been avoided if the second officer had allowed the first officer to continue to work on de-escalating the perp, but the shooting was 100% justified to a standard of a reasonable person.
The tone of John's voice whenever he says the word "reeeeaaaalllyyy"
Preservation of Life is also a priority for law enforcement officers. It mustn't assume paramount importance in every instance and officers have every right to defend themselves but a reasonable attempt at preserving life is also expected and this was a disgraceful one, if any attempt at all. Your technical reasoning could possibly be reinforcing such impulsive conduct by law enforcement personnel and I reckon you should rethink your perspective.
So if I felt threatened by someone walking down the street with a stick (not even attacking anyone) I’d be justified in shooting and killing him if he get to close?
Lack of training for these situations but good lessons-learn
Well cops murder another one… Watch out boys it's a loaded stick 🤔
I don't know on this one John
They shoulda just used their tazers instead of glock
Its a stick
The cops could have absolutely stopped the guy without shooting they show up in force for a reason if that group of men is not capable enough to all tackle down one man with a stick with out having to shoot him they need better training I’ve seen people on the street do a better job then this
I despise liberals and everything they stand for. But when I see things like this, I get a little more comfortable with defunding police. That second cop's superiority complex is nauseating to say the least.
Not justified
You know, big nets worked wonders on subduing people back before firearms became the norm; they're regularly used in the movies to capture the tough ones. A coordinated "seining" could go a long way towards ending protracted standoffs, eh!?
Why do you keep calling an obvious twig a metal pipe?
It was a slow night in Red Bluff, so . . .
John said it right, deescalation may have worked until the overly forceful guy showed up. I'm surprised he said that.
I would have followed the guy around in my patrol vehicle while eating donuts and drinking coffee until he got tired. Chasing a guy with a stick lol.
Not sure why everybody is disagreeing with the self defense tbh. The officers surely did a poor job talking to the guy, but this guy obviously intended to inflict harm on these officers, the officers tried less than lethal multiple times, told him "drop the stick or you'll be shot", and in the end he decides to swing at the officers. id have shot him too if he was swinging something at my head. also, its not like the cop mag dumped him,, the suspect was shot ONCE. where's the common sense anymore? is YouTube censoring the agreeing comments or something?
Power hungry cop , the first cop left in control would have handled this situation way better
officers can shoot people with sticks now lol….. rip america
Red bluff used to be nice actually but drugs fucked that place up. Kids can't play in some parks anymore due to needles and broken glass
imagine being scared of a mentally ill man with a stick id have this situation done with in five minutes with a blunt police are human trash
Maybe it's "legally" justified, but nah people won't accept this. You can kill people with anything if you willing to, so why don't they shoot any aggressor if that's the case.
This is a great example of "Give them an inch and they take a mile"
For all the people saying this was wrong you have to understand that he's got a potentially deadly weapon.
The more leniency on the laws, the more and more they become broken.
Thought experiment: swap the officers for crazy guys and the crazy guy with an officer. It would look like they chase him down, scare him into fighting, and then shoot him.
It looked like these officers forced this guy into a corner and shot him. He should have complied with the orders, but he was not the one who escalated this. Looks very bad. And possibly justified under the law, but I would never be able to sleep again if I were one of those officers.
I have mixed reviews about this. At least three officers and the suspect only had a stick. Surely someone could have disarmed him without having to use lethal force. But I get it…compliance is a must but was deadly force really necessary?
Stick to a gunfight = Stick loses
Mental Illness vs Ego = Ego loses and so does mental illness
It has always been a dangerous job to be a policeman. Now it is dangerous to be a citizen. The cops are pussies and the public is in danger. What if he was mentally challenged? Shoot to kill? It is ridiculous. If the cops are not trained any better than this, why are we spending so much money on law enforcement?.